Am I in the right gear?

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Chill
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Am I in the right gear?

#1 Post by Chill » Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:52 pm

Sometimes I wonder if I am shifting too soon. I only stay in 1st long enough to get going, 2nd is so jerkey that I prob jump to 3rd at about 4,000 rpms (maybe), 3rd I let it get to 5,000 then I want to go to 4th. I seams that its getting so loud. 4th I get it up to 6,000, 5th only 7,500 and then 6th... well you know...off the rickter.

I'm on a ex500 so I realize it may sound a bit louder than a R1.


Does this sound right?

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#2 Post by Jello_Biafra » Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:47 pm

Whereabouts is your redline?

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CrashDummy
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#3 Post by CrashDummy » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:05 am

I've got an EX500 and the engine pulls from 2500 rpm. You can shift at 2500 rpm if you're not under heavy throttle. If you want to go through the gears smoothly don't use the clutch to upshift. This advice alwas causes strong disagreement but read this and just try it. http://www.sportrider.com/ride/RSS/146_ ... pshifting/
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#4 Post by Chill » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:57 pm

Ok..I read that one from a previous thread and tried it. I was pretty nervous so it seamed that it was harder to kick it up. (going from 3rd to 4th) But I also am a little concerned because of all that talk about messing up the bike.

I will study it a little more and then practice it on a lonely road. he he
all_coholic

Jello, gotta check on those Redliners. I'll get back to you on that one.

Thanks
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#5 Post by Jezebel » Thu Jul 19, 2007 5:41 pm

Rachelle, you'll have to excuse CrashDummy. He is a huge fan of clutchless shifting and can't seem to get it off the brain, but without practice, it is just as jerky (if not more) than anything else.

Randy - seriously dude...

As for advice on shifting, I am terrible at paying attention to my rpm's so I can't be of much help on that note. I just play with it until I find what feels right. If you think you're shifting too soon, let it go a little longer and see how that feels. Have you done this and it's still jerky?

Listen to Jello - he'll lead you down the right path.
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#6 Post by Chill » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:14 pm

Thanks Jess. I guess it really IS like driving a stick, I will do what feels right for now.

I must admit, I'm a little scared of the clutchless shifting. Thanks for the response.
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#7 Post by Jello_Biafra » Fri Jul 20, 2007 12:02 am

Jezebel wrote:Listen to Jello - he'll lead you down the right path.
Ha!

I guess it's sort of hard to tell someone when to shift. Obviously every bike is different, and so are the shift points. It's all by feel.

The main thing is just keeping the engine in a range of RPM's that gives you the best compromise between optimum power and staying away from crazy high RPM. Obviously the higher you rev (to a point, usually a few hundred RPM from the redline) the harder the bike pulls, but for the sake of fuel economy and wear on the drivetrain, we can't run around at that peak power. On the other hand it's also unwise to let the bike 'lug', or let the RPM's drop too low. Small displacement engines, even on a light bike, make very little power when you get into the lower revs. Now imagine you need to go.. whether it be to evade a hazard or change lanes.. whatever. You need that power instantly. You can't sit and wait for the engine to reach it's peak power. So usually the compromise is somewhere around the halfway point of your engine's range of RPMs. For example my R6 redlines at around 16,000 and the power really starts to climb at around 8,000. Therefore I typically try to maintain around 8,000 RPM when i'm at a constant speed. Obviously accelerating a braking will cause them to climb or dip until you shift again.

What you have to do is just feel out where you're getting enough power. Crashdummy says it's around 2,500 for the EX500, so try that. Can you ride at 2,500 in every gear and get instant throttle response? Once you find that RPM, use your gears to find that RPM for whatever speed you need. You should find that 25 is maybe 2nd, 3rd is perfect for 45 etc. It becomes second nature. I typically change gears when the sound/feel changes enough that I know I'm leaving my little RPM window and either revving too high or too low.

The jerkiness in 2nd gear sounds really unusual to me, though. First gear will always have more of a 'lash' feeling, meaning that you can feel the teeth of the gears picking up the slack and making contact with the gears on the opposite shaft. However 2nd is usually much better in that regard. I kind of wonder if it isn't an issue with your gearbox. Just to clarify you mean that it's jerky when you let off the throttle and then get back on it?

So there's some babbling. I'm tired but I proof-read it and I think it makes sense. If you're still not comfortable with your shifting by the time the next ride comes around (or any other event that we may attend), come talk to me. It's easier to point and show than it is to write down.

As far as clutchless shifting goes, I wouldn't bother. It does accelerate wear on your gearbox and it is not always practical. I use my clutch because it's a wearable item (it's right under a cover on the side of your bike, your gearbox is not readily accessible or cheap) and that's what it's there for. Rather change that than shift forks and gearsets.

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#8 Post by f4igrrl » Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:07 am

:lol: you said shaft. :lol:

But seriously, thanks for the explanation, it is helpful. I haven't tried clutchless shifting, but the idea makes me wonder why they have a clutch in the first place (if you don't use it). Then again, I KNOW NOTHING! :D

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#9 Post by CrashDummy » Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:06 am

sleeping
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#10 Post by Jezebel » Fri Jul 20, 2007 2:26 pm

Clutchless shifting definitely has its benefits but there really is no need for it unless you're racing because one less motion however many times can really shave some important time.

I use it on occasion and I know a lot of others who have used it as well and I have never heard of any problems caused to the bike so until I do, I'll keep using it on occasion. It's not as scary as it sounds though. Upshifting is much smoother than downshifting. If you're going even a little too fast, the downshift gives major wobble.

But again, none of that has anything to do with or will help the shifting issue you're talking about.
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#11 Post by Jello_Biafra » Fri Jul 20, 2007 8:29 pm

If you really want to shift without your clutch then buy a quickshifter. They're what, $500? Much cheaper than cracking the cases.

You can't really downshift without the clutch at speed. If you watch the Pridmore video that I posted in the blipping thread, you'll notice that he's going up without the clutch and down with. The only time that you can really click it down is when you're practically idling in a gear.

Seriously though, you're not losing that much time ON THE STREET by using a clutch.

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#12 Post by KJNRIDR » Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:58 am

I tend to shift without the clutch if I really want to pick up speed quickly. But I always use the clutch when going from 1st to 2nd gear mainly b/c it's quite jerky and I'm not trying to pull it up on one wheel :-)

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#13 Post by Scarlett » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:26 pm

I'm kind of a clutch less girl. Because my hands are too small it's smoother up shifting clutch less. When I do use the clutch I manage to throw the poor thing into neutral

Rachelle-don't forget to listen to the bike. If you let it it will tell you exactly when to shift. The EX's love them high revs.
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#14 Post by Big Cory » Mon Sep 24, 2007 12:21 pm

I use the cluthless shifting from 2nd to 3rd on occasion.
but only going up, never tried it going down. I always thought it wouldnt work anyway.

on my bike I shift to save gas, lol

I really would never have a need to get out of first gear if I just went by redline. 106mph in first gear. Now that is very loud

But at $3 something a gallon, I am shifting.
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